Discuss: Agent Orange: A Chapter from History That Just Won’t End

Dear Jim Singmaster,

Thanks for speaking out so loudly and clearly about what must really matter to children everwhere if they are to enjoy a good enough future.

All my best,

Steve

Dr. Singmaster,

First of all I want to thank you for all your work.  Secondly, i have no doubt that there are SERIOUS issues regarding domestic use and production of dioxin containing herbicides and the like.  And the fact that Monsanto has a near monopoly on the American seed corn market certainly can’t make anyone feel very comfortable about the myriad of food products rooted—both figuratively and physically—in Monsanto gmos. 

That said, this is such a big issue—spatially and historically—and all I can do is raise one small voice in the din of many.  I traveled through Viet Nam two summers ago, and what I can say is I have much more in common with the nurses and aides tending to the Vietnamese victims than the victims themselves.  The reason for this is quite simple really—not to mention ironic considering the current national health care debate: As a child, I had access to affordable quality medical care.  The rural Vietnamese did and still do not.

I’d love to hear more about these domestic sites you write of.  I agree completely with your assessment that more needs to be done.

Best,
Ben

you article is a very good read. my dad was on the ranchhand crews and i would like to make sure people never forget about a.o. i do you have any suggestions to do just that?

Ryan:  Unfortunately, activity to check out problems like AO and TCDD contamination here won’t usually get moving until some people sense that they may be directly suffering.  Orion readers are a fairly sizable group, and if some got concerned enough to write letters to Congresspersons and to several environmental groups such as EDF, NRDC, Greenpeace etc. and to Orion directly something might develop.
    The place to get Congress’ attention would be to ask members about what has been done to find what happened to wastes from the plants cited in EPA’s report “Dioxins” published in 1980.  The data in that report are not too reliable, I fear, as the Givaudian plant mentioned in one of my above remarks was given in the book a clean bill of health with TCDD being below 0.1 ppb in a couple of samples.  Later after TCDD messes were reported in MO and Newark, another report in 1983 found 11.0 and 5.0 ppb OUTSIDE on the plant grounds. Givaudian quickly disappeared after that, and no follow up on contamination IN the plant, ON health evaluations of workers for effects at the plant, and WHERE wastes went ever came out as far as I know.
  Redstone Arsenal at Anniston, AL was where much AO was got prepared for spray use in Viet Nam and possibly some was made there.  That site does not even get mentioned in the EPA’s Dioxins book. 
  Where action to get these USA sites checked out might best be achieved by getting the attention of Members of Congress and of those environmental groups to that Dioxins book asking if EPA can indicated if sites described in the book for making or handling 2,4,5-t herbicide and hexachlorophene and wastes from them have been checked to see that TCDD has not been left “unknowingly” to be contaminating ground water. 
  AGAIN TCDD exposures may be occurring here due to lack of EPA action on sites that it had listed in that book. Dr. J. Singmaster

I am with you all on the orange. My Dad now suffers from diabetes and I realize he is very lucky. I have seen a movie about Anniston Alabama, Dr. Sing. It was about PCB wastes dumped illegally so it is true that the idea of dioxins are lying about, like you say. I have been thinking of writing some kind of book…but I have to get with it. :)

First, I want to thank you all for your feedback.  Secondly, I wish to pose a question that some of you may have some thoughts on or answers to, because quite frankly, I don’t:

I’m sitting in on a political ecology class at the U of A and the question came up today: What does industry gain from using compounds that have dioxin byproducts? Because certainly there are other ways to say, preserve wood, right? Why then does industry chose to employ products that are not only potentially damaging to humans and the environment, but are also potentially damaging as public relations nightmares? Re: DDT. Is it cost? Is there some other vital characteristic of these dioxin producing compounds that can’t be replicated in dioxin-free compounds? I don’t know. thoughts?

ps—Ryan, check out the Agent Orange Legacy website.  Michelle and others are there, and Sharon Perry is doing some great work that may be of interest to you.  Here’s the url:

http://agentorangelegacy.ning.com/?xg_source=msg_mes_network

Ben,

As I understand it (after reading 2 or 3 articles and as an epic failure at chemistry), the dioxin is a by-product of the herbicide-production process - it is not actively added - it is also not actively removed…

Jay:  Concerning your comment,  the TCDD gets formed in making 2,4,5-trichlorophenol(2,4,5-TCP) that was then used without refining to get rid of TCDD to make 2,4,5-T and then Agent Orange.  What is never mentioned is that that 2,4,5-TCP was from late 30s to late 60s the most widely used chemical disinfectant after chlorox-type solutions. It was the principal active agent in dozens of cleaning mixes used in hospitals and in food handling and service operations.  It appears that some refining of the 2,4,5-TCP was done for such use.  But it is very likely almost everyone had some exposure during those years to traces of TCDD.
  But raw product and process wastes with considerable amounts of TCDD in it got mishandled or used for wood treatments with people showing up with chloracne symptoms.  As I have noted in previous comments here, the federal govt. and others concerned about getting rid of TCDD problems have missed many plant sites in the USA, where TCDD got formed as a byproduct in making the 2,4,5-TCP.  At times it seems like the AO use in Viet Nam has served to distract attention from the manufacturing messes of USA companies making the 2,4, 5-TCP disinfectant and the 2,4,5-T herbicide both widely used in the USA.  Dr. J. Singmaster