Discuss: A Swamp Forest Grows in Brooklyn

Now that I have studied wetlands, I appreciate them even more as the chemical processing that goes on there is remarkable in aiding the atmosphere. We need to maintain all of the wetlnads we can. Recreation is not the answer for you cannot recreate nature.What a wonderful story that made me feel I was there.Everyone, but especially those in Brooklyn would benefit from the solitude and energy of the wetland.

Of what avail are forty freedoms?

“Of what avail are forty freedoms?”

NOTHING, without responsibility toward the wildlife (all non-human, non-domesticated species) that make our life possible.

Mike, I totally agree that we must act with responsibility towards all non-human life, just as we must act with responsibility for all human life. I also totally agree that wildlife makes our lives possible, both physically and mentally.

We must re-wild our land, that is not in question, but we must also remember that humans are animals too. We must re-wild ourselves as we re-wild the land. I agree that it is good to set aside land to not plow or weed or spray or dig up or destroy or plant. However, I don’t see what’s wrong with picking some berries or taking some flowers or adding some waste compost or harvesting whatever wild edibles spring up. We can have places in wild ecosystems too.

I never said that humans should never enter wildlife habitat, only that there should be areas off-limits to all humans. While we are animals, we are throughout most of our range AN EXOTIC SPECIES. For the explanation, see http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande/scb4.

I think that you overestimate the amount of time necessary to adapt and evolve. There are numerous examples where natural selection can occur in a score of years. That is actually one thing that really surprised me when I started reading more in depth about evolution. If an area becomes polluted with coal dust for instance, there will be a relatively quick shift from more white to more black butterflies in a population - in only a few years.  Sure, things like walking on land take a long time to develop, but that isn’t the magnitude of changes we are talking about here.

I totally agree that we ignore our link with nature all the time, but that it is not what I am talking about. I’m not talking about just justifying recreation. I’m talking about truly returning to the ecosystem when we die, getting our food from the ecosystem, and returning our waste to it. That humans aren’t mentioned in natural histories shows our arrogance and perspective, not our lack of place in the natural world.

Humans were a keystone species in a number of ecosystems all over the world. Sure, sometimes they over hunted and made mistakes, but so do all animals. When humans recognize their place, they can be adapted to quickly, becuase they act like animals. A new equilibrium would be established, some species may be lost, but the equilibrium would come back relatively quickly in geo-time, maybe hundred years.

Matt, species can adapt quickly ONLY IF THEY ALREADY HAVE THE NECESSARY GENETIC MATERIAL! If a moth has inherited the capability of changing its color, yes, it may adapt quickly. But in general, it probably CAN’T. That’s why I took a million years as the time it takes to become a native, and why I claim that humans are native only to Africa, and LIKE an exotic species even there.