Discuss: The Era of Small and Many

Claire,
The web site provided the link for lists several types of soy; the safest one there to eat would be tempeh (they don’t include miso or natto, which are also fermented). Tofu is OK, though not in excess. In a world with lots of xenoestrogens, it’s not exactly healthful to add more estrogen-rich foods to the body burden through direct consumption. And B12 is best assimilated from animal sources.

Hudson is correct about agriculture. Monocultures are inherently destructive, creating soil erosion and runoff that creates things like the Dead Zone in the Gulf of Mexico. And for those of us in temperate North America, a great way to go would be permaculture—or edible forest gardens. By kilocalorie, they can produce about double per sq meter per year than what monocrop-type agriculture produces. Forest gardens also cut way down on outside inputs and help retain water in the soil; the whole point is to capture and store as much sun and water as possible.
Although there may be healthy vegans, I can only speak for myself: I do not do well on diets that lack animal protein. I tried this years ago, before grass-fed beef and pastured chicken were as available as they are today. I know the farms and farmers I buy from, and they pasture animals, so they get sunlight and access to grass and any critters in the grass—which is as it should be.
Ruminants are not meant to eat grain. Grains acidify the rumen and, which leads to health problems for the animals.

it is rich to think that humans consuming dead animals for protein (all of which comes from plants) is somehow superior to humans consuming plants.  Time for you to brush up on your nutrition knowledge.
Also, beware the ‘demon soy’ studies conducted by the dairy industry.  No one would ever convince me that sucking the mammory glands of a bovine is necessary for my health.  Especially the milk of factory farmed cows (about 95% of all dairy).

Melisa wrote: “No one would ever convince me that sucking the mammory glands of a bovine is necessary for my health.”

As you point out yourself, Melisa, it depends on the bovine. If one can get raw, grassfed milk, then great. If not, then best to steer clear, because high-density dairies, though they’re required to meet certain regs, represent a floor, not a ceiling, when it comes to the health of the animal. They can have higher than “normal” somatic cell counts and it’s still all right for the milk to go into a bulk tank. As mentioned, many of the problems come from cows eating grain, not grass, grain—they are not meant to eat grain.

I eat plants and eggs and some meat, poultry not so much, little, if any, grain…no gluten, and seldom drink milk because the state where I live outlaws raw milk. And I avoid soy as much as possible, though this is difficult because it provides “protein” for so many kinds of livestock, even those that are pastured.

If you want to get upset about something, why not get upset about GMOs, GM soy specifically, if that makes up the bulk of your diet?

The people who advocate raw milk don’t, to my knowledge, shill for the dairy industry, because that industry represents animals in confinement, eating grains, not grass.

Please provide links to the “demon soy” studies by the dairy industry that you mentioned. Thanks!

I agree, GMO’s are a problem.  This concern would largely go away if we didn’t feel the need to feed 70% of grain to fatten up animals.  Just think how much healthier our soils would be?
The ‘happy cows’ at ‘humane’ dairies do not allow the newborn calf to nurse from their mother - not even once.  femail cows are artifically kept pregnant until their bodies give out.  The male calves are whisked off to death since they do not have mammory glands. 
Male chicks are also killed upon birth.  And so many ‘free range’ facilities such as the Huterite farms are really just factory farms - concentration camps for innocents. 
Thankfully humans are not built to require bovine milk or eggs as the above practices are unethical.
If you are unaware of the studies and people who try to steer folks away from soy - then that is a good thing - no need to point you to those studies.

sorry for the mis-pellings.  Love that femail…

Melisa,

An ideal diet would be one that follows the seasons and allows animals to do their thing. Everything in life is an exchange of energy. This is why I do not have any moral issues with consuming animal protein, so long as the animals get to express their cow-ness, chicken-ness, pig-ness, etc. I do not want the energy associated with CAFO-type places in my body, so I avoid that as much as my own knowledge of a farm’s practices allow. That is more possible with what McKibben’s talking about as relocalization would allow us to know our farms and farms (and abbatoirs or commercial kitchens) and observe their practices.

Not all farms kick off the babies, either, and some actually do seasonal milk (e.g., Essex Farm in New York), so that they allow for the normal cycle of milk production for a cow.

The core soil devil is monocrops. I agree we should not feed grain to ruminants…that is the bulk of what drives monocrops as we two-leggeds in no way could consume as much corn/soy as what’s produced (and I wouldn’t want to, anyway).

Lastly, I find it odd and sad that my lack of awareness about the “demon soy” studies is somehow OK to you. (“If you are unaware of the studies and people who try to steer folks away from soy - then that is a good thing - no need to point you to those studies.”) Doesn’t allow for openness or open conversation or expansion of knowledge for self-edification. Feel as tho’ I’m being “nannied.” And that is not a good thing. Doesn’t inspire trust.

You may be confused by what I admit wasn’t very clealy articulated.  I am saying the bogus soy studies are not reliable because they were funded by a competing industry.  That is why I wouldn’t recommend wasting time on studying their results.
Better that we all spend valuable time reviewing truly scientific studies.  Check out the PCRM website for lots of info on a healthful plant based diet.

Hi, Melisa.

I still think it’s good to check out such things, even if biased, because it’s just helpful to know what others are presenting as facts. That said, I will check into PCRM. My own feeling about diets—if soil health and animal health were NOT an issue (which we agree they are)—is that each person needs to figure out what suits her/him best. If you’re eating something consistently and it’s making you sick, stop eating it. And, frankly, diet varies over time. People cannot do macrobiotics, or paleo, or whatever for long periods of time. That’s why I feel the sanest way to eat is to follow the seasons. And that’s not always easy; traditionally, that would have led to a waxing and waning in terms of quantity and probably quality of foods, but would have been a truly varied diet. Part of the reason we have chronic illness is because we eat excessively; we’ve historically never had so much food (including empty calories) that we have today. But what I’ve seen is that anytime someone changes things up, they see a difference. This has been my experience personally and also what I’ve seen in others.

Thank you for the info…I will check it out!